One Tree Hill

From: Arpagian

Posted: Oct-29

To: All

I have been thinking about the role of villains in a drama lately. Now that Dan has all but fully redeemed himself does OTH need a villain to be a complete drama. I have always thought that you need to have a bad guy or girl to play against the hero/heroin characters. That is why I became so obsessed with Rachel being behind the skank plot. While she always has had a good heart underneath her deceptiveness, I wanted to believe she would take Dan's place as the shows shady character. Do you guys think OTH needs a new bad guy or girl to remain a good drama or can it survive with a guest villain every now and then?

p.s. When I say villain I don't mean someone whose necessarily evil just someone for whatever reason is doing things that are hurting others.

Edited Oct-29 by Arpagian

From: dc2theoc

Posted: Oct-30

To: Arpagian

Arpagian said...

Now that Dan has all but fully redeemed himself

He is not close to redeemed in my eyes.

Arpagian said...

does OTH need a villain to be a complete drama. I have always thought that you need to have a bad guy or girl to play against the hero/heroin characters.

That's a really interesting question. I guess convention says yes for the reason that you said: characters need foils to play off of and that's what makes for drama.

Arpagian said...

Do you guys think OTH needs a new bad guy or girl to remain a good drama or can it survive with a guest villain every now and then?

This is a slightly different question, as I don't think "complete drama" and "good drama" are necessarily the same things. (Unless you meant them to mean the same thing? I don't want to interpret your point incorrectly.) I do think the show can survive with a guest villain but I think part of what I love about villain storylines--generally--is that they have to do with a character so ingratiated with the show. Obviously they need to start somewhere and Rachel, for instance, had no history when she first showed up being a b*tch. But what makes the storylines rewarding over time for me is when they draw on history and use fleshed-out characters. Hard to do that with guest villains, you know? But I don't think that means it can't be a good drama or a complete drama. If there was an absence of villains altogether, as your first qusetion suggests, that would be a different story--probably a pretty boring one!

From: NYJOEYBE

Posted: Oct-30

To: dc2theoc

dc2theoc said...

Arpagian said...

Now that Dan has all but fully redeemed himself

He is not close to redeemed in my eyes.

Yikes! A little harsh no? Well then it is a good thing it is not up to you whether Dan has redeemed himself.....because most viewers over the age of 15 want a Dan and Naley reconciliation.

Holding on to past grudges does nothing but cause misery to you and those that have to be around you. You can of course live anyway you choose but I hope you eventually find the peace you need.

N.Y.JOEY :D

From: Arpagian

Posted: Oct-30

To: dc2theoc

dc2theoc said...

This is a slightly different question, as I don't think "complete drama" and "good drama" are necessarily the same things. (Unless you meant them to mean the same thing? I don't want to interpret your point incorrectly.)

That's an interesting question as I am not totally sure I know what I meant-lol. I know that on the shows I loved the most there was always a character I loved to hate (ex, back in the day I loved J.R. and Alexis). I just am wondering without Dan in that role what happens next. I like Rachel but she seems shady and I will be interested to see where they go with her as she comes into the Scott fold.

Edited Oct-30 by Arpagian

From: dc2theoc

Posted: Oct-30

To: NYJOEYBE

NYJOEYBE said...

because most viewers over the age of 15 want a Dan and Naley reconciliation.

When did you take an opinion poll?

From: dc2theoc

Posted: Oct-30

To: Arpagian

Arpagian said...

I just am wondering without Dan in that role what happens next.

I don't think Dan will ever be completely out of that role.

Arpagian said...

I like Rachel but she seems shady and I will be interested to see where they go with her as she comes into the Scott fold.

I am eager to see this as well.

Arpagian said...

I know that on the shows I loved the most there was always a character I loved to hate

That is mostly true for me, too.

From: NYJOEYBE

Posted: Oct-30

To: dc2theoc

dc2theoc said...

NYJOEYBE said...

because most viewers over the age of 15 want a Dan and Naley reconciliation.

When did you take an opinion poll?

Yesterday actually. It was quite clear. Btw, if you don't mind too too much, how old are you? I don't really care personally, it's just for integrity of the poll and to place your opinion.

Thanks in advance,

N.Y.JOEY :D

Edited Oct-30 by NYJOEYBE

From: SoapManiac5174

Posted: Oct-31

To: Arpagian

Arpagian, heck yeah I agree with you that OTH needs a good villain or villainess to bring good drama to the show and to really complete the series!! I know that others don't agree with me on this, but I still miss the Felix Tagarro character from OTH because he was such a good villain and he was the same age as the other characters on the show like Lucas, Peyton, Nathan, Haley, etc. Since Felix is the same age as the other main characters on the show and someone who they can relate to, I find him to be a better villain than old Dan Scott. I feel that Dan is just too darned old to be the villain of a bunch of younger characters.

Back to Felix: I loved Felix's rivalry with Lucas, his way of rubbing other characters the wrong way, his "frenemy" relationship with Mouth over how they both loved Brooke, and his relationship with Brooke. These are the reasons for why I feel that Felix made such a good villain for the show, and he still could. I still find it sad how the writers just wrote Felix out when he truly brought such great drama and discord to the other characters on the show. To me, OTH does need a good villain on the show, and it needs to be someone who is the same age (or at least close to) as the core characters.

Personally, I would be okay if the OTH writers would get rid of season 7's current useless male characters like Julian and Clay, and replace them with Felix Tagarro. At least Felix brings drama to the show, and I have not seen this happen with Julian and Clay. To me, Julian and Clay are just being written as fuddy duddies and there is nothing worthwhile or interesting about these two characters, whereas Felix is at least more interesting and intriguing. It's too bad that the we OTH viewers can't have a good villain on the show right now.

Also, just as I feel that the show needs a good male villain, I think that it equally needs a good female villainess, too, and Rachel Gatina fills that role quite nicely in my eyes. What I don't like is that Rachel was NOT brought back as a regular character after the show's 4th season and that she is only recurring now. In my opinion, Rachel would have been a better character to bring back as a series regular this season than the writers just inventing the Quinn character and bringing her to the forefront of the show. (Rolling my eyes!) At this point, I still don't care for the character of Quinn and I would love to see her replaced by a more already establised, worthwhile character like Rachel.

Now, I know that Quinn is connected to Haley because she is her sister and all, but that does NOT mean that she is automatically a viable character, to me, because the writers have still made her so BORING and kind of unlikable. At least Rachel does have history with every character in the group (i.e Nathan, Haley, Mouth, Brooke, Skills, etc) right now, and she continues to bring drama to the show. I think that Rachel's fiery, intense, and passionate personality and connections with the other characters on the show is definitely what OTH needs - instead of some wimpy character like Quinn and even Alex.

From: dc2theoc

Posted: Oct-31

To: SoapManiac5174

SoapManiac5174 said...

his "frenemy" relationship with Mouth over how they both loved Brooke

You and I have already discussed Felix as a villain but this sentence gave me pause. Did you think Felix really loved Brooke?

SoapManiac5174 said...

written as fuddy duddies

Fuddy duddies made me laugh. Hadn't heard that in a while.

SoapManiac5174 said...

Also, just as I feel that the show needs a good male villain, I think that it equally needs a good female villainess, too, and Rachel Gatina fills that role quite nicely in my eyes. What I don't like is that Rachel was NOT brought back as a regular character after the show's 4th season and that she is only recurring now. In my opinion, Rachel would have been a better character to bring back as a series regular this season than the writers just inventing the Quinn character and bringing her to the forefront of the show. (Rolling my eyes!) At this point, I still don't care for the character of Quinn and I would love to see her replaced by a more already establised, worthwhile character like Rachel.

Now, I know that Quinn is connected to Haley because she is her sister and all, but that does NOT mean that she is automatically a viable character, to me, because the writers have still made her so BORING and kind of unlikable. At least Rachel does have history with every character in the group (i.e Nathan, Haley, Mouth, Brooke, Skills, etc) right now, and she continues to bring drama to the show. I think that Rachel's fiery, intense, and passionate personality and connections with the other characters on the show is definitely what OTH needs - instead of some wimpy character like Quinn and even Alex.

Definitely agree with you on Rachel vs. Quinn (and Alex).

From: SoapManiac5174

Posted: Oct-31

To: dc2theoc

Yep, I do believe that Felix actually loved Brooke. Although he may not have shown his love for her, I think that he did care for her in his own way. I say this because of the scene after Mouth took a passed out Brooke home from the party at Tric, and Mouth confronted Felix in Brooke's bedroom. When Mouth told Felix that he did not care anything about Brooke and Felix said that he truly does care - that one scene made me feel that Felix did love Brooke. I felt that Felix and Mouth scene actually revealed a lot about Felix, and it allowed Felix to show his more sensitive side. The way that I interpreted the scene is that Felix showed that one moment where he was NOT just a macho, wise-cracking, troublesome guy, yet he actually did care for Brooke by what he told Mouth. Again, I know that Felix didn't always show it, but his scene with Mouth is what made me believe in his love for Brooke.

New to SOAPnet?

Stay Connected:

Advertisers & Partners